Life is full of ups and downs, and it is never meant to be approached in a linear way. If you want to thrive and find numerous solutions to your problems, you must learn how to train your creative mind. This episode features author, transformation expert, and spiritual strategist Tara-Nicholle Kirk. She shares how a rough childhood and a major economic recession opened her eyes to achieving personal growth outside her comfort zone. She explains why going beyond your zone of excellence can reveal your real genius, become less tactical, and result in a profound inner transformation. Tara also explains how her daily rituals and meditative practices led to the creation of SoulTour, a company that helps people tap into their spiritual self and unlock their biggest potentials.
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Tara-Nicholle Kirke, CEO SoulTour
“I Turned Down Not One But Two 7 Figure Deals To Stay On Mission.”
What a treat I have for you. Tara-Nicholle Kirke is a globally recognized author, a transformation expert, and a spiritual strategist. She has taught at her very young age over 50,000 people how to shine their light and quit hiding their light. All people maybe suffer from a little impostor syndrome somewhere. The most impressive thing I know about Tara is two times in her life, she turned down seven-figure deals to maintain her path on her mission. Tara, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much. It’s funny to have what you didn’t do, what you chose not to do, be one of the biggest indicators of who you are, but it’s true. I love this. Let’s chat.
I think of the Warren Buffett quote, “It’s not what you say yes to. It’s what you say no to.” He claims you should say no to about 99% of the things that come across your desk. What was that old saying? “Just say no.”
Do you know what I think is interesting? We were talking about the zeitgeist before this and what’s moving in the ether, the ways people trends and stuff. There’s this popular trend I’m seeing of people saying no to a thing and still defining themselves by it by making it be this resistance, “I resist to that.” I’m like, “No, because spiritually, whatever you resist, you truly bind yourself to. You don’t want to define yourself by what you choose to say no to.” You want to say no so that you might say yes to something else. I teach my students that we say, “I decline to participate in that.” I don’t have to resist with all my might. I decline so I can go do this thing that matters.
I’m going to take you all the way back to little Tara, five years old in the homes that you were raised in, however that looked. Was there an adult who was an entrepreneur and set an entrepreneurial example for you as a young child?
Yes. My parents both worked for the phone company. My dad is still the smartest person I’ve ever met, which is saying something because I’ve been everywhere in this world. Now people would probably call them side hustles, but my dad was one who had a job so good that he couldn’t afford to not do it. He got his real estate sales license and a contractor’s license. During the time that my parents were married, they bought and sold 33 homes together, fixes and flips. They would fix and flip homes, then my dad would do this thing where he’d buy a lot and build a duplex, a triplex, a fourplex, or an eightplex on it. Sometimes he’d run them out for a while. Sometimes he’d sell them.
My dad is like a math whiz. He runs math in his deal math in his head all the time. That’s how I grew up. It was interesting because later in my life, I would be in the real estate business for a while. I was a young woman. I noticed that all of my friends who were also young women were very intimidated by the idea of buying and selling homes and the big math. I never had that in part because I had spent much time doing big math with my dad on deals when I was a very young child.
Isn’t it true that what you get used to, you expect as normal? If you think small, then small is normal. If you think medium, then the medium is normal. If you think huge ginormous mammoth, that’s normal.
I’m in the process of moving to Europe. I’m in all of these communities of people who are making similar moves at the same time. Many of them are not entrepreneurs. It’s been interesting for me because I’ve been an entrepreneur for so long. Even when I wasn’t an entrepreneur for stints, I still was an entrepreneur and because much of my world is filled with entrepreneurs, it’s been interesting to see how other people think.
I hear people say things like, “I can’t afford that. My budget for this is X.” That’s not even a thing in my world. When I was talking to my realtor in Portugal, my budget for a lease is $4,000 to $12,000 a month. It doesn’t matter. Whatever I love, I can flow the cash for. My income has always been very elastic. Normalizing that was the thing that happened growing up in my household.
There was never a conversation about what wasn’t available, what wasn’t possible, or what we couldn’t afford. It was more like, “We want to send the kids to private school. We want these cars. We want this house. We want to tie it this much.” That backs you into the math of the deals you need to do. That was how it was.
It’s what you accepted as normal.
It was and is my worldview. For that, I give thanks because my children live wonderful lives. Maybe in a bad way even, my daughter doesn’t know that affording it is a thing. She’s like, “We’ll buy another one.” I’m like, “Yes.” We also take care of the things we have. She’s like, “Just get another one.”
I’ve got a good friend, and they’re Chinese. He was talking to me about his daughter becoming reliant on the person who helps in the house. Her mother said, “I need you to clean up your room.” She said, “Sally will do it.” She was like, “We may be a little off track here with the three-year-old.”
My daughter doesn’t make her bed. We have an au pair at home and a part-time nanny. She goes to full-time school. We have housekeepers. I’ve been challenging them to include her, not just because I think it’s good for kids. It’s good to know how to make your bed. She doesn’t know how to do that. It’s also good to know that it’s good for her to see that I know how to get help. Our lives are beautiful and we get to spend a lot of time doing the things that are important to us because we have all these people who help us. Nobody’s job is above or below somebody else’s job. We exist in this beautiful ecosystem. I love that I get to support many other people in their businesses or their goals.Our lives are beautiful because we get to spend time doing things that are important to us with the help of other people. Nobody’s job is above or below somebody else’s job. Click To Tweet
There’s a certain nobility in any labor. Tell me about your company, SoulTour. Tell us about that.
It is not an R&B music concert. Every once in a while, someone’s like, “Soul Train,” and I’m like, “No.”
I know what Soul Train is. They got some miles on them if they know what that is.
Those are my favorite kind of people. We are a personal growth school. We are a school of business mastery, life mastery, money mastery, and self-mastery. We offer group and individual coaching programs, and lots of various courses and ways you can engage with us. The core of what we do is we help the ambitious spiritual maximalists.
People who are deeply spiritual, smart, and successful, but probably not all the way fulfilled. People come to us when they start to ask that question in their lives like, “If I don’t be my big self, and do my big dreams now, when will I?” They come to us for help doing their big dreams, learning who their real true self is, and what their real true self really wants, and then fulfilling their biggest potentials and their biggest dreams before they die.
For most of our people, those big dreams include the calling to build an empire of their soul, to build an actual highly aligned and profitable business empire brand. Sometimes even media, podcasts, YouTube channels, or whatever it is that transmits the transformational message or life’s work that they came here to create. We helped them build the empires, and not just to the end of making money, but so that they might also live lives that they were born to live. That’s what we do at SoulTour.
It took me a while to figure out what my mission was, but once I was able to define it with laser precision, everything else began to fall in line. If it doesn’t fit my mission, I say no, regardless of how attractive it may seem to be temporary, because it’s not meant for me.
It can be great for someone else.
It’s something good for somebody. It doesn’t happen to be me.
It’s a super elegant way of talking about what this work is. There is a hero’s journey that underlies getting there. You said it, and these people reading this learned it. It can take people years to get out of the scarcity that I call the trance of fear, the fear of what will happen when you’re no longer getting it, doing what you do for external validation, but for internal validation. Breaking the trance of scarcity has to happen for you to have the courage to say no to wonderful opportunities. Wonderful opportunities will come. Do you know the book, The Big Leap, by Gay Hendricks?
It’s a beautiful book. He talks about the four zones of human endeavor. There’s your zone of incompetence, “Great. You shouldn’t be there.” The zone of competence shouldn’t be there either, but that zone of excellence and genius is where the smart, successful, spiritual ones get hung up because in your zone of excellence is where people will pay you a lot of money and make great offers to you to stay there and not come into your zone of genius.
Those are the offers almost every one of our clients has because many of them are coming out of successful careers in corporate or successful businesses that they hate. They often have that thing on the archetypal hero’s journey where the hero is issued a call to the adventure over and over and refuses the call a bunch of times when they accept the call. Doing your real Big Dreams causes you to feel exposed and vulnerable. My students when they come in almost all are like, “I’m very excited and terrified.” I’m like, “You are paying attention. That is a sign you’re doing it right.” If there’s no fear, are you even getting outside your comfort zone?
I’m like, “You’re doing it right, you’re paying attention. That’s why you feel that.” We help them work by transmuting that energy of fear into awe at their own coming expansion. We give them skills for recalibrating their nervous system, out of these trances of fear, scarcity, and trauma sometimes because someone who didn’t have the childhood that I have financially can come to the entrepreneurial table with some real serious in their body, visceral reactions to some of the things that you will be challenged with doing as an entrepreneur.
We help them work on integrating that, deactivating that in their energies, and then, is the real fun part. Only after you’ve done that work are you in a position to meet your real self and let your real self set your real purpose, vision, desires, intentions, and goals when fear is no longer hijacking your real self or hijacking the driver’s seat of your life.
When you talked about the zones of excellence, magnificence, and genius, I know for myself and for most people, the zone of excellence is like a temptress. It wants me to stay there because I’m good at all this stuff. I’m better than most people in the world, but there is no risk or vulnerability. I can’t fail in that zone. That tells me it’s the wrong place.
It’s a shadow of the right place. There’s some essence to it that’s like kind of almost. That was me at MyFitnessPal. I was the Chief Marketing Officer of one of the largest health and fitness companies that ever existed. I loved it. I loved the people that started that company. I loved our team. I loved our two-year run from 45 million to 120 million customers and almost $500,000 acquisition. It was a wonderful ride. I was still doing this thing where I was like, “What do I care about?” I care about coming against the number one source of self-sabotage in human experience, which is internalized repression.
I care about people knowing that they are deeply beloved of this universe, whether they ever lose a pound or not, whether they earn another dollar or not, whether they ever start a business or not. What I know people want is to lose weight. How about I work in weight loss, but I have this huge platform and I can slip all these other messages about radical self-acceptance? If your career or most of your day is spent head-faking people into the real thing that you care about, it’s entirely possible that this is a shadow career for you in our zone of excellence, not genius.If most of your day is spent head faking people into the real thing you actually care about, you are only doing your shadow career. You are in your zone of excellence, not genius. Click To Tweet
People hear me a little bit on a thing and they’re like, “I’m going to take her advice. I’m going to let myself want what I want.” They sit in their daily ritual or meditation, catch a vision for what they want to do with their real calling, real big dreams, and start working on it. What they build is still a shadow version of that. There’s all this perform, conform, produce, conditioning that happens in us when we’re very little in this culture.
It’s like success is at the end of this treadmill, where you keep checking these boxes of what culture calls success. Even if you’re achieving that, performing, and getting that validation, it’s never going to feel fulfilling. That’s why you see people be like, “I got a call the other day. I made my first $1 million at my job in 2022, why does it feel bad?” “Welcome to you’re about to accept your call to the adventure of doing what you can’t do.”
Here’s what I know about comfort zone physics. We like our comfort zones because it’s comfortable, but when we leave our comfort zone, when we step outside when we get in the frame, our comfort zone grows. We leave again and it grows. One of my favorite quotes, and why everybody ought to get out of their comfort zone, is from a wise philosopher. It’s, “You’re far better, smarter, and stronger than you think.” That was Christopher Robin in Winnie the Pooh. It’s one of my favorite quotes of all time. I’m a big fan of wise words, from Aristotle, Socrates, and all of them, but Christopher Robin had it going on.
Christopher Robin was awesome. In my household, we listen to a lot of kid audio books. On YouTube, there has a rendition of the whole long original Winnie the Pooh that we’ll listen to for hours on end. It’s great. I also think that Winnie the Pooh in that version of the book was like the OG body positivity radical self-acceptance like guru. He’s in the mirror being like, “I’m short stout, and I’m great with that. Know why I like to exercise? It’s because it makes me hungrier so I can eat more honey.” Yes, Winnie the Pooh. That’s right.
I’m still back at little Tara. Your parents did a great job. What a great example.
They were nuts too, to be clear. They were also crazy. I say that because my parents were geniuses, and are still geniuses and are somewhat crazy. When you do experience childhood trauma, it can be wired into your nervous system that you don’t necessarily know there’s another world beyond that and/or with entrepreneurship, a lot of people when they realize that their trauma is part of their self-sabotage, they think they have to wait until they’ve totally healed the trauma to start the thing. Not understanding that the callings of your soul businesses will take you on a path to heal whatever needs healing. I say all the time, “You think that the business exists for you to work on it. I invite you to the point of view that the business has work it wants to do in you.”
You and I are going to be friends for a long time. Back to young Tara, the first job or the first entrepreneurial venture you had, but the first place that you made money.
I tried to sell my brother in the grocery store when he was born. My mother did not let me, so I did not make money doing that, but I did try and I was charging $25, which I feel was pretty good in 1980. That was the thing that happened. My mom tells that story every time people are like, “When did you know she was an entrepreneur?” “She was five.” That happened. There’s another story she tells all the time that is awful.
That’s the one we want.
The preschool teachers would pay me $1 to watch the other kids during nap time so they could go to the corner store next door. My mother found out about that. I’m four. I don’t need to take a nap like those kids. I need to sit with the teachers who are drinking coffee at four years old. I always was that probably too old for my body. I like to think in retrospect that they maybe were humoring me and went to the back of the school or something, but my mom tells it as though she got wind of it. It was like a problem for her that she was paying them to watch me and I’m watching students.
One thing that was very formative for me and my entrepreneurship approach was that my parents were part owners in a racket club when I was 7, 8, 9, or 10. I got to sit behind the snack bar. Racket clubs are weird because there’s all this physical exertion. Racket sports are super intense physically, but then we always had a big-screen TV and a big leather couch. We always served fries and beer. I don’t know what the philosophy was there. I remember I was very excited to be at the snack bar. I go serve you a beer and some fries. I’m sure I wasn’t supposed to be able to, but that’s what was happening.
It was that Jane Fonda era and we had an aerobics room. I got to see these women, first of all, get dressed up in all their aerobics gear come hang out with their friends and work out. Being a 40-year-old woman working out with my friends has been my vision, dream, and goal since I was eight. Now I feel like I’ve very much arrived in life because I’m doing it.
I became very fascinated with self-sabotage, behaviors, and how people would come and they would be there every day for a while. They would fall off and you’d never see them again. That idea that people know what it is that they’re supposed to do and struggle with getting themselves to do it became very fascinating to me then. It’s still the core thing that I work on in the world. I had a coach ask me one time, “What problem would you be excited to work on for 30 years?” I’m like, “I’ve literally been working on that problem for 30 years.”
That is such a worthy calling.
Fitness is the best example. Everybody knows they need to eat less and exercise more. There will never be another answer to how to improve your fitness. That’s always been the answer. Everybody knows that. They don’t need help knowing what to do. They struggle with getting themselves to do it and getting themselves to do it in ways that will work consistently long-term, which sometimes means in ways that are fun. I’ve always been and still am fascinated by that. Humans are messy and marvelous. I love that. My whole entree to that topic was through the lens of my parents offering this entrepreneurial solution to that problem. If I knew my gym served fries and beer, maybe I would go more or not.
Nowadays, that’s not going to happen.
It’s probably not a good plan. There was always one heart attack a year at that place.
In the days of Google reviews and Yelp, as a gym, we got a 4.2 rating with 75 heart attacks a year. It’s probably not going to work. I want you to think back to your marvelous career. I want you to think about an event where when it happened, it was like, “I can’t believe I’m going to have to go through this pain.” Maybe now, in retrospect, where you have some distance, you can look back. You’re not looking forward and you’re not looking down on it, but where you can look back, where maybe that event was one of the most significant events of your life. Do you have a hard moment you could share with us?
In 2008, I was in the real estate business then. How fun is it to be in the real estate business during the real estate recession? It was awful. 2008 was a year I lost everything. I lost my business. I got divorced. One of my children went back to live with their father. It was bad and wonderful in terms of the insight and who I became at that time. The first thing that happened was it got me off the treadmill. Remember I was talking about that treadmill where you’re just, “You’re doing the success stuff.” I have an old set of kids and a new kid. My old kids, which I do call them by the way, don’t love it.
One of them is adopted and the biological one of them I had when I was seventeen years old. I was sixteen when I got pregnant. I had this intense lifetime as a child. I’m a very highly gifted, performing, and validated child, then I made this wild left turn in my life. Through a series of miracles, I managed to start college when I was sixteen. I got my Master’s and Law degrees. People showed up, kept paying for it, and kept inviting me for their education. I took them up on it.
I had been one of those people that was feeling like I was making up for my mistakes in life by checking the boxes and doing it all right. 2008 was when I got the message that you can’t outperform unwanted events happening in your life. There is no world in which you get to do it so right by some external standard that nothing bad happens to you. I was like, “All right, God, noted.”
That’s a little bit untethering in ways that are wonderful and very challenging at the moment of them. If you’ve lived your whole life up to then, following the cultural checklist, there’s this moment where you’re like, “That doesn’t matter anymore. Now how do I navigate my life? How do I decide what’s next when external validation, money, or the prestige of whatever is not going to be the thing?” You got to learn who you are.
One thing that I noticed at that time was, especially because I was in the real estate business, I got observant. I observed something that will stay people in good stead this season. There are people who will thrive in any climate. It does not matter what is happening in the market, what the economic crisis is, recession, pandemic, or whatever. There are people who will thrive with integrity, not by taking advantage or looting.
I set out to study almost what was it that was causing some people to thrive and others to not. I came to the conclusion at that time that we all think it’s about getting our decisions right, making the right moves, and having the right strategies, and it’s really not. If there’s an 80/20 rule, only 20% of whether you thrive in a crisis like that is based on your actual strategic decisions. The other 80% is based on your inner well-being.
Are you clear-minded enough to make a bold executive decision, see what works and what doesn’t work, and course correct? Are you grounded enough? All entrepreneurship is an emotional rollercoaster. Entrepreneurship during a global economic crisis is like the rollercoasteriest of the rollercoasters. Can you get yourself out of those low-vibration moments or do you dwell there for a year? That’s the stuff that matters.
During that time, I did a ton of creating my own daily rituals and practices that kept me out of the spiral and moving forward and kept me on this continuous course correcting using my own inner guidance as a navigator. Those practices and rituals are literally now the programs that we teach or a big component of the programs that we teach at SoulTour, but I have no idea that that’s how that would be. I had no idea this would end up being like my actual life’s work I was creating out of my response to a crisis.
Many times, entrepreneurs and non-entrepreneurs get real tactical. Things happen and we get real tactical, “I’m going to do this and that. I’m going to try this and that.” I know in my own life that what I help my clients with is this. It’s like, “Let’s get real quiet. Let’s let our creative brain, which is where the genius is, work.” You can’t make it punch in at 8:00 and out at 5:00. It won’t work like that. If we get quiet enough and disengage from the noise, the chatter of the world, our creative brain will come to life. The answer’s in there. I can’t tell you why or how. I know that it is. I love that.
There are two things. One is you can’t make a punch at 8:00. However, you can train it. You can give your inner editor and censor a little time off every single day in a ritual way. You can capture those golden threads of inspiration from your creative mind and you can follow them. This is what I see. People get the downloads, but they are used to overruling and overriding their own moments of clarity that come through their creative mind or trying to rationalize their way out of it or logic it. The creative mind is not logical or linear.
You train it to speak more loudly when you follow it. You create this feedback loop in yourself when all the amazing, perfect place and time moments happen because you followed it, then you learn to trust it more. My friend, Artie Wu, is a meditation teacher. He’s always like, “Sometimes the muse speaks and what you get is a download of a 25-year business plan, rarely, but sometimes the muse speaks and it tells you to go get a burrito. You go get the burrito. On the way to the burrito, you see a thing and it inspires a thing.”
You got to allow it to light the natural next steps to what you desire and are called to do to light up in natural ways before you step by step. It’s not always going to be the comfort zone-style action plan. Sometimes it’s literally, “This is the thing I got to do. I got to email that guy. I got to call that person.” Sometimes I’m like, “Who do I always know? Who do I already know? Who knows the answer to this thing?” That’s my inspiration a lot of times. Call so-and-so. They already know, but your thinking mind doesn’t always get you there. Your creative mind gets you there.
This is the toughest question I ask. I’m putting you in a time machine like Star Wars or Star Trek. I’m going to send you back to twenty-year-old Tara. When you get there, you’re going to get 60 or 90 seconds to share something you wish 20-year-old Tara knew then that you know now that would have eased your path, accelerated your pace, and provided more peace. There she is. What do you tell her?
“You have permission. Here is your permission slip. You get to want what you want and go where you want to go. When it feels good to you, that is a sign that it’s the right path for you. Permission granted.” There’s something that one of my teachers from many years ago taught me that I hold fast to you that I wish I had heard this earlier in life, when she said, “Never quit in the middle of a hunch. If you get a hunch or an inspiration to do it, do it. You don’t have to figure out all of the how.”Never quit in the middle of a hunch. You don’t have to figure out all of the how. Just do it. Click To Tweet
Now we say, “Let the Divine handle that. You decide what and why. You get a hunch. You keep going. Do not quit in the middle. Don’t worry about figuring out the how. That will light up. You’re cute so definitely drink the chlorella and the collagen that you’re tempted to because when you’re 50, you’ll be thankful to your 20-year-old self.” The number one thing people come to me for is how to do their dreams. The number two thing is like, “What are you drinking?” Coming up in 50 years, chlorella and collagen will do you well.
As the attorney would say, I reserve the right to recall the witness for another interview. We’re in the fourth quarter. Tell me, how can the show support you?
If you’re a person who, when I say things like, “Big self, big dreams, upgrade your dream. Know that the only thing between you and the greatness you’re destined for is self-sabotage,” the self-sabotage of your critic in particular, I want you to come and meet me at SoulTour.com/Affirmations. There’s a bunch of things you’re going to get when you come there. You’ll go there and enter your information.
The first thing you’ll get is my Transformation Tuesday Newsletter. It is full of modern parables and insights that help smart, successful people build the empires they came here to build. On that page, when you fill out your information, you’ll also get a quick audio training on how to breathe new, fresh life into your old dreams. We’ll send you a set of affirmations to transform your inner critic.
I want to remind people that our flagship program at SoulTour is called Empires of the Soul. We have many different ways people can enter that program if they want my help and my team’s help creating the empire they came here to create. If you think that is of interest to you, I invite you to come to SoulTour.com/Apply. You’ll fill out a little information, tell us a little bit about yourself and we’ll reach back out to you to book a call and see whether we should be working together.
Readers, SoulTour.com, go through the entire website and look at everything Tara has to offer. Tara-Nicholle Kirke, thank you.
Thank you. This was such a delight.
I’m glad you’re here.
About Tara-Nicholle Kirke
Tara-Nicholle Kirke is a globally-recognized author, transformation expert, and spiritual strategist. She helps smart, successful people reach their potential and start living their Big Dreams, by undoing their self-sabotage patterns. As the founder of SoulTour, Tara has taught over 50,000 people how to stop hiding their light with her Self-Mastery Method toolkit which draws from neurobiology, depth psychology and spiritual law. Tara also wrote the authoritative book on transformational business and has been featured in Forbes, Harvard Business Review, and The New York Times. Business Insider called her the #1 woman Silicon Valley tech companies should add to their boards.
After getting knocked up at 16, Tara walked the socially approved path to success: bachelor’s and master’s in psychology, law school at UC Berkeley, working at a law firm and then in real estate. But reaching all these goals didn’t feel meaningful to her – it was all appearance-oriented. When the recession hit, Tara lost everything as a real estate broker and had a dark night of the soul. Realizing she needed to undo the programming that kept her dreaming small, she started to re-parent her inner critic. This radical transformation led her to MyFitnessPal, where her truth-telling and radical trust mindset as a CMO helped the company grow from 45 to 120 million customers. Later when her role at MyFitnessPal moved out of alignment, Tara broke through the next level, which ultimately led her to found SoulTour.
She has twice turned down 7 figure deals to maintain her dedication to her mission.
When Tara was the CMO for MyFitnessPall, she was all fired up to write You Can’t Hate Yourself Skinny. With a multi-million book deal on the table, Under Armour acquired the company and said “NO” to the book. Body positivity was not on-brand. It was Tara’s cue to get out, declining a 7-figure salary to stay as a figurehead. She decided to write a different book – her authoritative work on transformational business. While working on transformational business, Tara realized just how many CMOs and CEOs were stymied by Inner Resistance, self-sabotage, and fear. She now believes 80% of our success comes from doing the inner work and finding peace and only 20% from the strategies and skills we have. In a final pivot, Tara founded SoulTour to support leaders to get into alignment and as yet another testament to how dedicated she is to turning down millions to be true to herself – she declined $3M in venture investment. She knew venture capital would rob her of her sovereignty and not be aligned with her inner visionary. Tara would love to share: – How she knew it was time to leave her dream team and job at MyFitnessPal and start her journey as an entrepreneur – Why she now believes only 20% of your success is determined by your degrees, skills and strategies (and how to work on that other 80%) – The Transformational Consumer Trends for 2023 and how metrics of success are changing – The #1 Game of Thrones-inspired prompt that will help you find out who you want to become.
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